HSBC HK CRS虽迟但到

最近有些关于CRS税务的讨论，主要针对股票账户，相关阅读贴在了3楼 现在HSBC HK银行也收到CRS要求，友情提示，如有税务规划，请及时更新管理 HSBC HK-Establish your Tax Residency through CRS Self-Certification #p-6726256-establish-your-tax-residency-through-crs-self-certification-1 Establish your Tax Residency through CRS Self-Certification Note: Please do not reply directly to this email. Thank you for responding to our requests about Common Reporting Standard (“CRS”). #p-6726256-after-review-we-still-need-you-to-provide-a-taxpayer-identification-numbers-tin-for-certain-jurisdictions-of-tax-residence-jotr1-2After review, we still need you to provide a Taxpayer Identification Number(s) (TIN) for certain Jurisdiction(s) of Tax Residence (“JoTR”)1. /uploads/short-url/mI6LkPnINVW5HbgK5xGvbRr0jZ7.png?dl=1 ### CRS and your tax residency Under Hong Kong’s legislation2 on CRS, we are required to identify your tax residency3 (usually where you are liable to pay income taxes) and report the required information4 in respect of your account to the Inland Revenue Department if you are a tax resident of a reportable jurisdiction5. In accordance with the legislative requirements, banks must confirm the reasonableness of the self-certification received based on the information obtained in connection with the opening of the account. (i.e. the “reasonableness” test). If any part of the self-certification is found to be incorrect, incomplete, or apparently in conflict with the information held by the banks, they must obtain a new self-certification form or an explanation and/or supporting documents from the customer. In general, whether or not an individual is a tax resident of a jurisdiction (which is usually where you are liable to pay income tax) is determined by the person’s physical presence or stay in a place. A bank may require further information from customers below: The bank identifies customer information on file that indicates a connection with a new or different CRS indicia, including but not limited to (e.g. identification of the account holder as a tax resident of a jurisdiction, an address in a jurisdiction, a power of attorney or signatory authority granted to a person whose address is in a jurisdiction, a hold mail or in-care-of address in a jurisdiction with no other address on file for the customer). /uploads/short-url/m3CpSfTipTukuvsYyEBVDVv9tyj.png?dl=1 ### What we need from you To comply with the legislation, you need to provide and confirm your tax residency details. This process is called self-certification. You can do so by using one of the following submission methods: Complete the process online You can log on to HSBC Online Banking to access and complete the Individual Tax Residency Self-Certification online through “Update your tax residency Details” under “Banking”. Submit the form via post Download the Individual Tax Residency Self-Certification Form6 and return the completed form by post7. Note: This is not applicable for customers who have not got any signature specimen in our bank record. If you open account through our HSBC HK App and did not provide any signature specimen through our branch before, please visit any HSBC branch in Hong Kong to submit the form to branch staff and provide your specimen signature for processing. /uploads/short-url/yLqsZ50WoY8rmEpb4rv1Hx7zPWR.png?dl=1 To learn which TIN(s) you still need to provide, or for other enquiries about your case, please call: HSBC Global Private Banking customers (852) 2233 3033 HSBC Premier Elite customers (852) 2233 3033 HSBC Premier customers (852) 2233 3322 Other customers (852) 2233 3000 Please complete your self-certification at your earliest convenience to ensure our CRS reporting is based on accurate and up-to-date information. Without it, we will rely our records to identify your tax residency. If you have multiple relationships with us, you may be approached by different parts of the HSBC Group. Your response to all our requests help us serve your better and capture your information accurately, and we are grateful for your assistance and support in providing this information. Please visit our CRS website for details. If you have questions on your tax residency status, please visit the website of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (“OECD”). If you need tax advice, please speak to your tax advisor. Thank you for your support and cooperation. Notes: Possible reasons that we still need you to provide the TIN(s) for certain JoTR(s): (a) The TIN(s) provided in your previous reply does not match the concerned jurisdiction’s TIN format / requirements; (b) the country / territory of your current residential address and / or the mailing address in our record does not match with your indicated JoTR(s) in your previous reply, and we do not hold any documentation on file to explain why; and/or (c) the explanation in your previous reply as to why certain jurisdiction(s) is not your tax residency was not sufficient to explain your current circumstances. The “Inland Revenue (Amendment) (No.3) Ordinance 2016” and any subsequent legislative amendments. Your tax residency is the country/territory where you are a resident for tax purposes (usually where you are liable to pay income taxes). The information may include, but is not limited to, the account balance and the total amount of interest paid to the account. Hong Kong has activated exchange relationships for AEOI with other jurisdictions on the basis of bilateral competent authority agreements or a multilateral competent authority agreement under the Convention on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Tax Matters. The list of reportable jurisdictions may be updated from time to time. Customers may refer to the IRD website : Home > Tax Information - Individuals/Businesses > Double Taxation Relief and Exchange of Information Arrangements > Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information > Reportable Jurisdictions for the latest information. Please visit our CRS website and navigate under “Related Content” to download the Individual Tax Residency Self-Certification Form. This website also provides further information on Individual Tax Residency Self-Certification Form (CRS-I (HK)) along with guidance on completion of the forms. Please ensure that you select the correct form as some of the forms have similar titles. Post the form to the following address: HSBC PO Box 74523 Kowloon Central Post Office Hong Kong 正常填的话Tax Residency应该是US，难道CN还会收US账户里dd工资的税？美国都扒了一层皮了 还要提供SSN。一旦CRS掌握SSN，难道会根据SSN筛查其他账户？不过美国的股票账户遵守FATCA，CRS应该不掌握。除非是下面IGA这种情况 https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/389240/49 中国–美国 FATCA 政府间协议（IGA） 允许 IRS 与中国税务总局间交换美国账户信息，但仅针对 美国纳税居民 的账户；对普通中国居民（非美国税务居民）的账户，IBKR US 不予上报，因其 非 FATCA 报告范围 。

STK: Please complete your self-certification at your earliest convenience to ensure our CRS reporting is based on accurate and up-to-date information. Without it, we will rely our records to identify your tax residency. 这句话有点意思，如果我不填，他们就自行判断？？

【相关阅读】贴在这里 https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/424220 /c/investment/tax/10 前情提要： 我发现中国税务局也主动发表了很多对中国税法的司法解释，尤其是涉及tax residency/NRA和treaty的部分，有各种case study，这种官方口径资料显然很具有参考价值，跟https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/60386/112的“永久居所→个人/经济关系→常住地→国籍”test同等重要。 我就不tl;dr了，大家感兴趣都应该读完整的。和之前很多论坛讨论一样，税务局确实觉得身份证=户口=住所，但税务… https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/430118 /c/laws/18 个人dp: 因为本人最近已经因为CRS的问题，向国内税务局补了几十万的税。。 心疼之余也是在于在今年以前把CRS当纸老虎，没有重视（当然今年以前确实是纸老虎） 先普法： 各位在美国工作，但是没有取得绿卡，或者取得绿卡以后没有向国内申请出国定居且注销户口，或者双本的。。 仍旧属于中国税务居民，跟你在国内待多少天没有关系，中国跟美国不一样，183不到不算税务居民的生效条件是你： 没有中国户口，但…

既然他们来问了，你就跟hsbc说自己是美国税务居民就行了啊 https://www.uscardforum.com/t/topic/424220/4 中国公民虽未取得住在国长期或者永久居留权，但已取得住 在国连续5年以上(含5年)合法居留资格，5年内在住在国累计居 留不少于30个月，视为华侨。 ___国税发〔2009〕121号 • 华侨虽然已取得住在国的居留权，但未加入住在国的国籍， 仍然持有中国护照，不是外籍人员。 • 华侨定居在海外，在境内没有住所，是无住所个人，应按照 一个纳税年度内在中国境内居住天数判定居民身份。

嗯嗯，lz没什么骚操作，如实回答。 发出来一是提醒下大家，二是看下其他方面有没有要提前规避的g点。 研究大佬的官方指引去了

Note that: /uploads/short-url/8S6JWvfM5q6nmwGexilrljyJSdF.png?dl=1 /uploads/short-url/mOcoSeI0MxNomj4a7PeaHXEYdXY.png?dl=1

给我自己总结就是 别碰HSBC CN 和 HSBC HK

看来香港只能用花旗了？能用墨绿开户吗。。

根本就不是用哪家銀行的問題。 你提交了美國手機號，銀行肯定要問你有沒有美國稅號。提交了美國地址/護照更要問。 除非把這些信息改掉否則你根本沒有機會違反稅務條例瞞報美國稅號，銀行系統跑批validate就不讓過的。

上周刚去把HSBC CN的给关了，link到了我用HKID开的HSBC HK，感觉风险比较大。 客户经理问我为啥要关户，我说税务问题，她秒懂，感觉可能我也不是第一个去关的了。 接下来可能也得考虑把工资卡给换一家银行

是换在HK的银行吗？HK的其他银行不会有这个问题？

感谢避雷

yu22hao: 上周刚去把HSBC CN的给关了 在CRS问题加剧以前，5年前我开户的时候，就想着，绝不能开HSBC CN，当然，后来想明白了HSBC的global view的一些细节，我现在也不敢主要用HSBC了。

是换香港本地的其他银行。 具体是这样的，其实HSBC HK本身也是安全的，因为我在香港的所有银行都是HKID开户，没有提供过CNID/护照/通行证，所以我的tax residency就是香港，不会被CRS，内地税务机关也无从（直接）知晓我的CNID和HKID的联系，最起码常规手段是获取不到。 但是我HSBC HK和HSBC CN因为卓越理财绑定，数据是互通的，理论上从HSBC CN能读到我在HSBC HK的很多个人信息，所以我比较担心会有风险。 目前根据小红书之类的DP来看，内地税务机关只能通过CRS获取到诸如年初年末account balance之类的非常general的信息，暂时还没有statement或者逐笔交易的数据（这就是为什么会要求自查自纠），所以理论上我维持HSBC HK的balance在一个稳定的水平的话，就算被关联上报了，也不会被flag，这样可以进一步降低风险。 而我在其他香港本地银行的账户暂时应该不会被上报。

是的，你考虑得比较长远，可以避免很多未来的风险。我之前贪图同名转账可以免费开了个HSBC CN，现在很后悔。

HSBC HK可以远程关户吗？最近几年可能回不去

收到了 /uploads/short-url/yuO576i9vtovbH51uo2G7YZHgRj.png?dl=1

我刚才也收到了邮件了。

请问你有什么其他银行推荐的嘛，我之前纯粹是听别人说HSBC HK开户比较容易，去渣打或者其他银行都会要求最低存款。所以没开。

/uploads/short-url/AfwRKFILLasNODbIGNOXSP1KHxe.png?dl=1

这个邮件年年都会发，就算你的地址，TIN，手机号都是同一个司法管辖区的（比如都是大陆的或者都是香港的），HSBC可能只是例行通知一下 ，并不代表它怀疑你的税务身份。

渣打貌似跟内地关系差一点，which might be an advantage - 渣打到现在还没支持跨境支付通。 恒生就是汇丰的马甲，pass。中行工行招商中信之类的都是国内来的，更加pass。 citi不太了解，好像要求比较高。其他小一点的诸如东亚就完全没接触过了。 其他几家虚拟银行，mox是渣打的马甲，相对安全；za bank是众安which is held by腾讯；蚂蚁是阿里的马甲。

你说得对 /uploads/short-url/nijhaaE5IRFTKzHzqDvAY0PtKZL.png?dl=1

没有区别。。。。。渣打单纯是渣 it 而不是什么违抗大陆。

看来是我一厢情愿了，看股东组成，我以为渣打相对其他几家离中资更远一点

DBS zszs

我也收到了。。

看来这个帖子有必要长期追踪一下 我去年就已经提供过美国的SSN了，到现在还没有收到中国方面的补税要求

所以其实比较安全的是美国开HSBC US 然后 international XXX 到HSBC HK？

不晓得，期待更多DP

果然泥潭还是大佬多，像我这种存款都不到七位数的小虾米，也不用操心什么CRS吧

今天，我填写了HSBC HK的CRS form，有hkid，手机号是hk的，以及hsbc的地址是香港的前提下，我直接声明，我只是HK SAR的resident。

希望crs是真的读不到逐笔信息 不然hsbcus的真dd假dd要补cn税可太逆天了…

所以开hsbc hk是不安全的 对吗 有没有tldr

intermilan: 所以开hsbc hk是不安全的 CRS 的司法管辖区可太多了……大家 KYC 都是按照 indicia 办事，同样是洗钱的话，HSBC 至少是专业的。你如果 take care of your own indicia 的话在哪里开都行。 你在自己实际 resident 的地方总要交税的，除非你住在避税天堂。

anon33643673: 同样是洗钱的话，HSBC 至少是专业的 哈哈哈，这就是“洗钱行”的由来吗

自己看AEOI的标准，没有逐笔信息的。

泥潭特色：一切有关 CRS、双持、非主流国家永居的讨论没有一个人看公开的技术细节和条款的，全是拍脑袋…… 马上快进到家门口警察实时看到你手机屏幕判断你是否双持 / 海外账户我都不惊讶。

我人不住在香港，只是有hkid，偶尔转一些港币还信用卡。 就是不想跟crs打交道

intermilan: 就是不想跟crs打交道 CRS 本身又不是什么怪兽，你如果确实只有一个税籍那就只填一个啊，也没说 HSBC HK 强制你申报自己中国税务居民。 而且你跟 HSBC RM 好好说，一般他们都帮着你撒谎 甚至建议你隐藏外国身份的……

anon33643673: 也没说 HSBC HK 强制你申报自己中国税务居民 就是怕这个 不过之前ibkr香港好像是要求大陆居民申报香港的收入，仔细想想还是有所不同的

那是按照 CRS 的 indicia 你看着就是大陆税务居民，你真的不是的话，那就实事求是，给银行 KYC 的人看证据。你是但是想撒谎的话，钱够多了银行什么都能配合你。

毕竟已经习惯了中国特色，照章办事的很少。

哈哈哈，的确如此，香港继承了英国的良好传统。

002: 英国的良好传统 钱到位了，我帮你洗 HKMA 也要放行

所以到现在有啥结论吗 什么姿势开HSBC US premier账户，和HSBC HK比较好呢？

如果先开HSBC US再开HSBC HK有问题吗。。还是说HK的账户如果没有HK ID只能用护照开